[00:00:00] Bri: I would say that the biggest shift was before I felt a lot more worry on the back, like behind the scenes. Maybe people close to me could, could notice that or know that I'm constantly scanning for danger, sort of thinking ahead, ever, always thinking ahead, always, you know, scanning and that takes a real toll on your body. 

Ronan: [00:00:29] Today is an exciting day for us at Field Tripping. We're excited to announce that Field Tripping has partnered with Kast Media to make our podcast bigger and better than ever. We created Field Tripping to explore how psychedelics can help us break on through to the other side and shift her views on sex, science, business, fitness, life, and death.

Now that we're working with Kast, which is one of the biggest and best podcast networks and publishers in podcasting, we're able to expand our global reach and continue growing this [00:01:00] welcoming space that we've created together. Field Tripping will continue our mission to create a forum for open and honest dialogue, and we'll try out some new types of content too. Our goal is to showcase the amazing community that we're a part of and help change the world, one episode at a time. Plus we're eager for listeners to have more opportunities to connect with us. So send us an email to fieldtripping@kastmedia.com or leave us a voicemail on speakpipe.com/fieldtripping We would be thrilled to hear from you and continue this epic trip together

Just before we hop into today's episode, I'd like to remind everyone listening that if you're suffering with depression or anxiety, and let's be honest, everybody on the planet should have felt at least a little bit of this recently, or, you know someone who has been, and needs some help, [00:02:00] please look into what we're offering.

at Field Trip We are seeing truly life-changing results for people. And we'd love to support you as well. Whether that's coming in for one of our ketamine-assisted therapy sessions, or just using our app trip to get your head in the right space, please get in touch.

One of the new segments we're starting as we launch with Kast is a section that I'm calling news to trip over recent events and developments in an emerging psychedelic space. And this past week was a doozy. The biggest news coming out this week was that the California State Senate approved a bill to legalize possession of psychedelics like psilocybin and LSD.

If enacted into law, the bill would remove criminal penalties for possessing or sharing numerous psychedelics, including psilocybin, DMT, ibogaine, LSD, and MDMA for adults 21 and older. [00:03:00] And it would also start the process for creating a legal access program. The bill sponsor, Scott Wiener said, if there's anything we've learned from the past half century, it's that throwing people in jail for using drugs doesn't stop drug use. While he's right, it is still a sad commentary on politics that we feel the need to laud politicians for saying things that are basically common sense. Surprisingly in Texas, the state government has also introduced a bill that would expand the state's medical marijuana program and require a study into the therapeutic potential of certain psychedelics for military veterans.

This is certainly not something I would have expected to come out of the state of Texas, but that's the beauty of life it can always surprise you. And just so we don't think those freedom-loving Texans are having all the fun a bill has been introduced in the state of Maine that would legalize psilocybin therapy, even for people with no psychiatric diagnosis. They're looking to Oregon, the state where an almost identical measure was passed last November for guidance. 

In [00:04:00] other news, Rick Doblin told Joe Rogan, but he's invited Dr. Carl Hart to join the board of directors of maps. Dr. Hart is outspoken about misperceptions and misinformation regarding illegal psychoactive drugs and the impact that has on drug laws. I'd love to have Dr. Hart on this podcast. So if any listeners know how to get in touch with him please let us know. 

Finally, a new documentary featuring former Laker Lamar Odom was released in which Odom talks about his use of psychedelics to treat his addiction and bounce back from anxiety. Odom went to the ketamine clinics of Los Angeles, which is great, but we'd love to show him what the power of our integrated ketamine-assisted therapy programs can offer. So again, if anyone knows how to reach Lamar, please make the connect.

I'm so excited to share that we have a special guest with us today. Bri Emery is an art director in Los Angeles and the founder of the lifestyle [00:05:00] blog, designlovefest. She has designed products for companies such as Target and Keds ranging from fashion to interior design.

Her new project, presently, is a website which features mindfulness cooking videos, which provide a calm meditative place for home cooks to get inspired and slow down from their busy lives and very meaningfully for this conversation. Bri recently went through our ketamine assisted therapies in New York city.

Bri, thank you for joining us today and welcome to Field Tripping. 

Bri: [00:05:32] Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. 

Ronan: [00:05:35] First of all, I have to appreciate that we're both wearing yellow today. So first question I have for you as a design person is what is your favorite color and why? 

Bri: [00:05:45] Ooh. Uh, I genuinely do not have a favorite color

I would say that. I am drawn to pink in photography, but I am not drawn to it in wardrobe. I do lean more yellow. 

[00:06:00] Ronan: [00:06:00] Oh interesting. Very cool. Uh, I just happened to pick out, yeah. I used to wear a lot of pink actually for a long time. I tried to rock a lot of pink and then slowly it fell out of favor for me. And I couldn't explain why maybe it's, uh, it does come in phases Yeah, you have to be in the right mindset. And I guess more recently I've been more of a pastelly, uh, although this is far from pastel, but, uh, cool. Anyway, thank you for letting us know. So, uh, I have a whole lot of things I'd love to speak with you today, but my first question, my first two questions for you are A, how are you today? 

And two, because I'm not very good at small talk pleasantries, let's get into something more meaty, uh, to set the right tone. So in addition to answering, how are you today, second question. is what is one thing you failed at in the past week and what have you learned from it?

Bri: [00:06:56] I am doing pretty good today. I would say the sun is [00:07:00] shining and you know, I'm a little nervous. I've actually only done one other podcast, so I'm a newbie to this. Um, so I just, you know, I'm feeling like I really just hope I can get the message across of my experience. Um, so nervous and excited. And as far as what I've failed this week,

I think I have...yesterday, I got a little bit in a loop of overthinking that I couldn't really escape. Um, so maybe, I don't know. I wouldn't consider that a failure. Just sort of like a failure to not take control and meditate or do something that would kind of get me out of that headspace. 

Ronan: [00:07:44] Yeah, I hear you.

And I, it's totally not a failure, um, at all, but I understand how it can feel like one I certainly, it's a slightly different circumstance, but I totally feel the same way, which is this morning I woke up, and even though, [00:08:00] um, you know, kids can be frustrating and annoying and hyper and not respectful of your space or your sleep, trying to always remain and be compassionate to them.

Cause they just don't know if kids are five and two, it's not, it's hard sometimes to not lose your patience and get short and cranky with them. And I hate when I catch myself doing it. Um, but it does happen. And so I see it, not that I'm a failure by any stretch of the imagination, but I failed in what I thought I should have a commitment to.

And so I totally hear what you're saying. Uh, and secondly, I really want to make it, uh, known that there's nothing you have to do on this podcast. There's no message to get across. Uh, for me, um, I think the most important thing is just be yourself and be true, uh, because at the end of the day, when I think about.

What we're doing with psychedelics and Field Trip, it's really all about enabling people to be their theirselves, themselves, their true selves, not, not bounded by shame or [00:09:00] expectations or anything else. It's really just about being honest with who you are. And I think when we all get back to that place and it's a journey and I'm certainly not there yet myself, but as we start to get back to that place, we're going to find a lot more happiness and peace in this world.

And so no expectations or pressures from me, even though I may throw some hard questions, 

Bri: [00:09:20] Well you're speaking my language and I feel calmer already, so... 

Ronan: [00:09:26] Excellent. Alright. So one thing, uh, I'd love to know is, uh, more about you to be quite honest, like so many people who live through social media, at least that's our interface with you.

And truthfully, it's one of my big kind of beefs with social media is that it's so easy to get to know one side of a person. Uh, and it's easy to get to know one side of you, Bree looking at your Instagram and social media posts, but I'd love to get a fuller picture of who you are. So can you tell us a little bit about your story and anything from, you know, like day [00:10:00] one of your life onwards is totally legit, but I'd love to hear everything that led up to the Bri that I'm getting to speak with now.

Bri: [00:10:07] Okay. Um, I grew up in Chicago and moved a couple of places and ended up in California when I was 19 and went to design school for graphic design and have always, you know, even as a teen, just remember loving journaling and collaging, like I would carry around, I should've brought it, but at this giant book of just like tons of collages and I was always a little bit emo and, you know, big feeler and always sort of like looking at things from that lens.

Um, so I always kind of knew that I wanted to do something in the arts and that I wanted to express myself. So doing a blog was really just a transformation of the journal. It came like super easy. I was like, okay, I'll just go from writing it here to writing it [00:11:00] online. You know, I had a Zenga journal as a team that I would put my

poems on and, you know, express all my angst on, it all just sort of transferred over to this sort of visual mood board of the inside of my brain with designlovefest. And that, that just sort of grew over time and took many, many twists and turns. I ended up teaching Photoshop for four years, kind of teaching people how to create their own blog and their own space to express themselves.

And then sort of got more into working with brands and, you know, and Instagram sort of doing jobs that way. Then started doing more products and entertaining. And then in the past few years more cooking and lifestyle stuff. So it's really been a wild ride of just kind of, I've always been the kind of person who just wants to try everything and switch it up and not stay too stuck in, stuck in my ways.

So it's been a really beautiful kind of [00:12:00] evolution of designlovefest, and where we are today, which is a total, probably existential crisis. 

Ronan: [00:12:08] All right. Uh, uh, it's, it's hard to ignore that. So why, why are you in an existential crisis right now for designlovefest?

Bri: [00:12:17] I think about two years ago, even before COVID maybe a little bit longer.

Um, I think the, that my own healing journey started to strike and was not something that I could really ignore. And I started really realizing that I was escaping in work, you know, it was just constantly doing different projects, different things, working constantly that, you know, that hustle culture and something was really, really screaming at me to slow down.

So I started sort of unwinding the amount of work that I was doing, which felt very scary, very overwhelming to sort of like peel myself away from something that was so [00:13:00] comfortable for me. Um, but something was just sort of, you know, kept telling me to pull back and align more with my soul and like maybe like reevaluate the kinds of things that I was doing and what are my values and how can I sort of pivot into something that feels, you know, more me.

And I first had to find out who that was. And I think that the spiritual sort of healing journey really showed me a lot of that. And so I feel like in the past few years, and then COVID, I've just been in this process of sort of unlearning unwinding and sort of rebuilding from a new, more secure, more myself place.

So I'm still in the middle of that, but it's been, it's been really cool and I've never been really that afraid to share the process online. So even though I share a lot less, I think stories is a little place that I can kind of let people in on all that [00:14:00] weird and weird and wonderful phase. 

Ronan: [00:14:03] What do you mean by you share a lot less?

Bri: [00:14:06] Um, I just find it less, social media to be less, you know, enticing overall. Um, maybe this feeling of that I used to have every time I felt something magical, every time I saw something that could be a resource. You know, it's almost a little codependent or like just overboard to be like, I need to share this,

I need to share that and we'd get so, you know, accustomed to doing that. And so now I just am like, tell myself, you know, you could just experience that on your own now and you don't, you don't really have to share it in the moment, you could share it later. So I think I've, I've found a much better balance.

Ronan: [00:14:48] There's so much I love about what you just said. A couple of thoughts that came up as you were talking about one was, um, throwing yourself into work. Uh, and we, we talk about addiction in [00:15:00] society like alcohol use or heroin addiction, or other kinds of addictions. But I am going to argue that the biggest addiction we have in society is an addiction to avoiding our problems.

Bri: [00:15:13] Right

Ronan: [00:15:13] And the easiest way to avoid our problems is go to work because we're a society. Rightly or wrongly, there's really no judgment in this, that's that's creates value around productivity. You know, I guess maybe that's, everyone's big concern about, you know, we're such a commercial society because we value productivity so much.

And so it's so easy to forget your problems or try to forget your problems- they never actually leave you, uh, and throw yourself into work because it feels like you're doing something good and it's not destructive. It feels productive. And we saw it recently, even as Field Trip, um, we had a big internal meeting and one of the themes that came out across so many people in this conversation was how, um, and many people didn't necessarily identify it or speak to [00:16:00] it overtly, but how they were using a work to avoid a lot of their issues.

And because all of the work we're doing is so exciting and everyone's so passionate about it, it was so easy to lean into it, but then as work actually become work, which it inevitably does, all of those problems come sliding over the back and they're still there for you to deal with. And so it's really, really cool that you had that kind of awareness about yourself.

And I'd love to probe further into that. But before I forget, because my brain is like Swiss cheese these days, the other thing I wanted to touch on was, uh, your comment about not having to share anything. And I, I remember having a similar experience a while ago. Um, uh, when. I realized I was watching people taking pictures of concerts or events, actually watching the concerts or events and, you know, and listen, I had fallen prey to it as well.

There's something really magical we're trying to capture, like we're trying to capture that memory and hold it without actually [00:17:00] experiencing it. And, uh, how self-defeating that was it's like, why can't you just be present to enjoy the moment? Why do we feel the need to capture it? Maybe it's something innately human.

I don't know. But it really is quite, uh, quite interesting that we always feel the need to capture something somehow.

Bri: [00:17:16] To show people what we're doing to show people that we're doing something. Just going back to this theme of just not feeling worthy, unless we're doing something or, you know, sharing something.

So I think, yeah, we're all figuring it out. 

Ronan: [00:17:31] Yeah, doing something meaningful and beautiful, right? And that's also been like one of my, like my struggles with social media is that the people who have gotten really good at social media do a very good job of painting, a beautiful, elegant, magical, perfectly designed world, um, which if that's your actual life, amazing.

But, uh, I think we've all come to accept that a lot of it is architected, uh, and it's not reflective of reality and [00:18:00] kind of go back to all of those narratives that I heard in high school and all that kind of stuff about how magazines, particularly women focused magazines created these unreal expectations of what a woman should be.

And social media unfortunately, has in many ways, picked up that baton and run with it. 

Bri: [00:18:18] And that's why I think it's fun to just sort of challenge the idea and share about uncomfortable topics. Like, I mean, something is, like me sharing about my anger, you know, like that's something that people don't really talk about, you know?

And it's like, I'm working on my anger, I'm working on my anxiety or I'm working on healing this PTSD. It's like, what's gonna make someone feel uncomfortable because it's not just like a picture of a restaurant is going to make another person feel very, very at home and like relate very much so. And that's really just what I'm interested in.

Ronan: [00:18:53] That's so cool. I think that's an amazing journey. What, what, um, was there a particular moment that kind of [00:19:00] triggered this self-reflection over the last two years? 

Bri: [00:19:04] You know, I went to New Mexico and just, there was something in the air there. I felt like I just was broken open there. I don't understand, like I was it's many, many things, but I would say that

New Mexico had a profound effect on me from some of my experiences there. Psilocybin had a huge, huge shift in my consciousness around fear and everything that I was holding on to. EMDR therapy was massive. You know, I mean, there's so many different elements that help. No one thing really shook it up, but it really started to shake a lot harder

once those things were more my awareness because you can't ignore them once they once they're there. 

Ronan: [00:19:55] Had you, um, tried modalities like psilocybin or EMDR [00:20:00] before, uh, this journey to make New Mexico, or was that kind of the starting point for, for these exercises? 

Bri: [00:20:06] I had not done EMDR. I had done psilocybin one time.

That was a very low amount. That really, really wasn't something to call home about, but, you know, after that it was like, it was a huge shift. So no, not a lot of experience in the mind-body connection. I didn't really understand all of that about, you know, that's when I started reading the body keeps score and understanding about our nervous system and understanding about how our bodies just hold everything.

And yeah, the second you start to understand it, it just started starts leading you down the path and all sorts of weird and windy ways.

Ronan: [00:20:50] For sure. Uh, and if it's not appropriate for me to ask, it sounds like it's telling me, so don't feel the need to answer because it's entirely okay to respect your privacy [00:21:00] and your boundary on that.

But it sounded like, it sounds like there was a number of things that happened in New Mexico besides potentially psilocybin. Can, can you share a little bit more about that or if you don't want to that's ok.

No, I mean, 

Bri: [00:21:11] one, I went into this, um, Zuni tribes store, and I just was looking at all of these carvings and all of these littles, like fetishes from the tribes and was really moved by them.

And then I spent the night out in this trailer by myself under the stars and, in Taos. And I just felt this incredible connection to the land there, to the stars. You know, I just had this almost psychedelic experience, you know, just completely sober out in nature and just something, you know, I just, I hadn't taken the time to really slow down like that, be by myself, be out in the middle of nowhere. So it just, something clicked [00:22:00] for me there. 

Ronan: [00:22:00] No, that's super cool. New Mexico as a, as a special place for sure. I got to spend a bit of time there for one of the businesses I worked on and there's something magical about the land. Growing up, I was never a spiritual or emotional person. I was always very much in my brain, in my head.

We can think through anything. And it's certainly been an evolution for me, um, to open myself up to those broader things in life and the universe. Uh, up until that point, you had, you sort of, would you have considered yourself a spiritual person or were you pretty much a grounded rationalist? 

Bri: [00:22:40] I actually grew up, um, like evangelical and it was not something that I had really ever connected with. 

Uh, you know, I went to a Christian high school. I grew up going to, you know, church on Sundays and Wednesdays and it was just [00:23:00] something that, I remember feeling connected to something during like music parts. I remember feeling like those like tingling feelings inside, like something's happening here, but I don't know what, and I remember just genuinely feeling a lot of fear around, am I going to hell?

Have I done this right? Am I, I was terrified of the whole concept. And I think once I moved to college, I completely shut down all ideas around religion. And that meant all ideas around spirituality because I still was very afraid. So I think once I went to New Mexico, I had a conversation with someone that was talking about, I had a very similar experience to me and that also opened up, you know, she was talking about going to a yoga retreat and having this experience where all of her shame and fear was falling away.

And I remember just being. Wait, I think I have a lot [00:24:00] of that still stuck inside of me. And, you know, then I started reading Eckhart Tolle and all of a sudden everything clicked into place. And I remember feeling like this, this relationship that I have to creativity is the same as spirituality. It's all one in the same or nature,

like it's, it is all, all that. So, you know, everything started widening for me once I could actually approach the fear that was living inside of me around organized religion. 

Ronan: [00:24:30] That's, that's super powerful. And thank you for saying that. I mean, I'm highly, highly, it's interesting. I'm highly critical of organized religion because what you just said, just exemplifies

I think my biggest beef with it, which is, um, you know, it's institutionalized mysticism that seeks control, right? At the end of the day, your fear about going to hell wasn't motivated by inspiring you to feel a spiritual connection to God, it's about getting a compliance to not do things that, uh, the [00:25:00] church has ordained as to be not socially acceptable.

And, and there's, there's so many problems with that. But interestingly for me, now that I have kids, I grew up Jewish-ish, you know, as ish and Jewish as when it could possibly imagine. Um, it didn't really resonate with me. I remember going to synagogue the twice a year, we went to synagogue and I really always appreciated the rabbi's sermons because he was really good at delivering passionate, emotional, thoughtful sermons, but other, and I got nothing out of it.

I thought of that as more of an intellectual exercise. Um, and so Judaism always got dropped down and down and down and importance. Not that it was ever important to my family. Um, But now that I have kids somehow being Jewish. And I think it's more about the culture and the identity than the religion. Um, certainly not the religion.

Uh, I, my concerns about the religion as it's basically premised off the repeating the fact that God is great and we're fallible and terrible, and that God is great, that [00:26:00] we're fallible and terrible, but becoming Jewish has extra becoming more important to me with time, which is a, a really interesting evolution for me personally, but, uh, super powerful and interesting to hear your experience.

And I think it's important that people realize that there's a huge distinction between being religious and being spiritual than religion can send you on a big path away from who you are. It can help you connect to who you are for sure, but for a penny, and it sounds like you, that was not the case. 

Bri: [00:26:29] Yeah, and

this is interesting because I don't, you know, haven't really spoken about much out loud about this topic, because it's mostly in my head, but, and I'm still, you know, figuring out where all of my beliefs lie, but, you know, I think I'm just more in this place of understanding the concept of Jesus and Buddha.

And like, it's all the same thing. It's everyone, everyone I'm very like into Joseph Campbell and that we are all, you know, God inside. And that it's [00:27:00] all one thing. And you know, that's where I'm at right now. It's just sort of ever evolving and changing, but that's kind of where I've landed in the past few years.

Ronan: [00:27:09] Yeah, I totally hear you on that. I love going back to the exercise- people like to do it probably intellectually- but if you really stop and think about the fact that we are all literally made up of stardust and just have a little bit of electricity off reading inside of us, how can you ever possibly get to the conclusion, even on a logical basis that we're not all deeply and intimately connected, it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

Um, so I totally hear you on that. Um, you recently completed our ketamine assisted therapy program in New York, and I have a ton of questions about that. My first question you've already answered, which is you had tried psychedelics before going into our therapy program, but it sounds like [00:28:00] only once or twice, is that correct?

Bri: [00:28:02] Um, I actually, I have more experience with microdosing and I've probably done psychedelics maybe like under 10 times, but I'd never done ketamine. I actually did it, uh, the ketamine in Los Angeles, not New York. 

Ronan: [00:28:18] Oh, sorry. Typo here. 

Bri: [00:28:21] I was going to do it in New York, but I ended up doing it in LA and yeah. So I'd never tried ketamine before this experience.

Ronan: [00:28:29] Okay. Um, and I would have loved to have asked you this question beforehand, but I'm going to see if we can get some insight into it. How would you have defined yourself before you started the program and how do you see yourself after having gone through it? 

Bri: [00:28:48] I would say that the biggest shift was before.

I felt a lot more worry on the back, like [00:29:00] behind the scenes, maybe people close to me could, could notice that or know that I'm constantly scanning for danger, sort of thinking ahead, ever, always thinking ahead, always scanning. And that takes a real toll on your body. And when you're just not living in the moment and you're living in the future so that you can feel safe all of the time.

And when you've experienced trauma, that's just something that you're trying to control all of the time is feeling like, you know, what's going to happen, you're, you're in control and, and you're safe. I would say that after doing it, I've experienced a lot less worry and a lot more connection to my intuition, which tells me a much clearer picture

of the moment. It's not living in my ego, which is [00:30:00] constant scanning and it's living more in my soul or in my intuition with, "okay. I recognize you're feeling that way, but what if we looked at it like this?" And so it's put a lot more space around all of my reactions, which affects every area of your life.

Ronan: [00:30:19] How did, how did you get there? Um, you know, were there moments along the way through the journey where there's just something that clicked and then there was another thing that clicked and then there's another thing that clicked and, you know,  once you lined all of that up, you can kind of get to that place of, of not being needing to be in control as much.

You know, I've, I like to say that the biggest mistake we have in life is the belief or, the biggest mistake we have in life is the belief that we are in control. And the biggest fallacy is the belief that we would want to be in control, even if we had it. Um, [00:31:00] and so I'd love to know what was there anything, and maybe it was just all the ineffable and there was just a feeling, but if there's anything, a little bit more tangible and concrete during your experience that helped you see this, I'd love to hear about that.

Bri: [00:31:13] There were definitely a lot of metaphors and abstract visions that I saw that, let's see if I can try to explain, but it would be like, what, like I felt like it was sort of like riding on a drone. The experience was like, so zoomed, it would zoom all the way out. And then zoom so far in, it was basically in the cells of my own body.

So it was zooming out and zooming in at the slowest pace possible. So nothing ever felt overwhelming, but it widened my perspective so that when I am getting overwhelmed or I am feeling triggered, I can remember to even look wider, you know, like, uh, take this like somatic approach of like, [00:32:00] how can I calm down my body and widened my perspective here because I'm, I'm experiencing tunnel vision right now

and it's causing my body to react a certain way. So it was not only showing me visuals that sort of exemplified that, but it would also show my body such peace and such ease that it was almost whispering to me like, "you could feel like this all the time." You know? "You could come back to this place behind your eyes," like, cause it's very similar to like a very deep meditation.

So it really was letting me know, like you can always come back here, like at any point. And it was showing me that in the most fantastic visual way, but it's hard, very hard to explain, but that's the feeling that I, I kept receiving over and over. I also experienced during my fourth session, I went a little bit [00:33:00] deeper and I decided to lay down and this was, I was able to move around and do more release in my body.

And so when I was coming back, like out off of the medicine, my legs started like involuntarily shaking a lot, okay? And I could hear, in my mind it was kind of saying like, this is good, you're unwinding. And it kind of was showing me this spiral motion of like, just unwind it. Like let it all out. All this tension that's been built up that we don't even really know how to access that we can access through our subconscious.

It was like releasing like a primal release of stress. Cause you know, they say like animals, like after they're going to be attacked, they like, their whole body will shake and then they're not stressed anymore. Like they removed it. So it was almost like it was removing it from a body perspective, but it was also helping me with like the mental idea around it.

So, you know, simple things like that. 

[00:34:00] Ronan: [00:34:02] I love the mention of the animals. Like I love watching my dog and he shakes it off. Fuck. I want to make life that easy. Right? 

Bri: [00:34:12] Yeah. That's what's crazy.

Ronan: [00:34:15] The other thing you said, um, and like it's all perfectly complex and it's all perfectly, uh, relevant to you, but I've always found it's useful for other people to hear this because maybe even if 2% of what you said resonates with someone who was, you know, exploring it or struggling with something and be like, "oh yeah, Bri said

that, that totally resonated with me." You know, everything else you may say may help them on their journey as well. So even though it is perfect experience for you, um, I can help other people. So I think it's really important to talk about this stuff as, as inaffable and complex, as, as it could be. Um, Uh, the other thing you said that I thought was super [00:35:00] interesting was the concept of like having space for this, right?

It really gives new meaning for like making space. It's just like, if you can separate yourself from your default mode, for lack of a better term, for just a little bit, you can realize just how wound up you are in that process. And just like a little bit of space and all of a sudden like, oh, there's a lot more here.

There's a lot, a lot more comfort or whatever it is you need. But I thought that was an amazing articulation of your experience. One question I personally have, cause I've never actually been able to go through our own treatment programs, um, in part because of COVID and part of, because of, um, you know, medical indications and all that kind of stuff, but

integration is such a big focus in the psychedelic community and a lot of people talk about the psychedelic experience because there's so much spiritual, enlightenment, whatever [00:36:00] you want to call it. Oh, I see what's happening. I see these processes, you know, I feel this connection. Um, but talking about the actual integration, part of the exercise where everyone talks, talks about the real power being, uh, often gets less left out of the conversation.

So I'd love to hear, um, what your experience with the integration sessions was like. 

Bri: [00:36:23] Well, the integration sessions with a therapist were great. I found them extremely helpful because all of these things can be sort of other worldly in how you're experiencing them. Very cool to just have someone listen to you and be able to just process it that way.

Um, I've found that integration was really important outside of even the sessions with the therapist, like journaling was huge. I started, you know, if you tune into your [00:37:00] intuition, it will tell you how your body wants to move or how you want to integrate, integrate this experience. Whether that be a long walk or literally just, I started dancing around for five minutes, just like moving my body, however it wanted to move or stretching at night or holding the dog or hugging my husband a little longer.

Like just all of these different ways and things that I learned to integrate love and connection into my life and meditation huge, you know, that I would listen to the music that I heard in the ketamine and I do this app called Luminate and it's um, have you heard of it? 

Ronan: [00:37:43] That's cool. Yeah. Flashes lights-

Bri: [00:37:44] It's so cool, you can kind of bring back the whole experience of, you know, having a psychedelic experience

and so I would try to just go back there to that place and try to remember as much as I could, maybe not necessarily [00:38:00] exactly the visual, but the feeling of ease, the feeling of floating in the stars on a clear love spaceship, you know, like I would just try to write this stuff down as much as I could so that I could bring it back up,

um, because I would say. I didn't experience really anything scary during the ketamine, but I did experience a lot of discomfort outside, like the following days. I feel like it sort of unlocks memories or emotions that then you are kind of having to confront in your day-to-day life. So the integration I thought was so important.

Ronan: [00:38:38] If I may ask, and again, this may be too personal, so feel free to say no, but what were the even conversations with your therapist, like in the integration sessions?

Like, I really actually have no idea what the sort of subject matters are. I can speak intellectually to the fact that our protocols suggest a behavioral activation and motivational interviewing, but I really don't know what [00:39:00] that means. So if you can offer some insight, wonderful. If not, that's totally okay too.

Bri: [00:39:04] Yeah. I mean, my therapist was so kind and calm and open-minded that she had so much knowledge about like bodywork and this somatic thinking that I was really able to talk to her and she was able to give me ideas. She was like, have you ever tried this kind of dance or have you journaled today or you, this was really helpful when you did this last week, you know, just sort of reminders about what would be helpful and also just someone to

hold you in a place where, I remember in the middle, I was pretty frustrated that I felt like I was actually moving backwards. I felt like I was more anxious and more depressed, but that is because I really think that a lot was ruffled up during the experience in my subconscious. And it felt like I was being [00:40:00] challenged like a lot.

So I was really frustrated with that. And she was like, that's very normal. You're in the middle. You know, she really assured me that I'm not going backwards, that this is just all part of the process and how it's unfolding. And yeah, just someone who had had that experience was really helpful. 

Ronan: [00:40:20] First of all the somatic aspect of it. 

I remember during one of my psilocybin experiences, you were talking about moving your legs and spinning it. I remember, um, physically sitting up and, and, and doing a wretched motion and all of my stomach muscles would clench, like I was going to throw up. I wasn't throwing up, but I distinctly got the feeling that, I don't know if it was the psychedelic doing it or just opening up my subconscious to let it flow, but felt like I was processing all the emotions that I was holding onto for such a long time.

Because, one of the things I'm very guilty of is, you know, not expressing and processing my emotions and just holding on to them and clamming up [00:41:00] on the inside until they explode. Um, and, uh, and so you're talking about the somatic aspect of it totally resonates with me. Um, One of the things that, uh, I do a lot of work with a gentleman named Erwin Perlman, a very spiritual kind of stuff he's based in LA,

so if you ever want to try some new, very deep spiritual kind of stuff, I'm happy to make an introduction. But, um, one of the things he talks about is that time isn't really linear that our lives aren't really linear, uh, and that, you know, every time there's a healing, even if you're kind of like on this path, it doesn't mean that you're going left or right.

It can take you up here. I can kind of take you over here. I can take you down here. I can take you over there. Um, and, uh, two things, another thought just came back to me from one of the things that you said before. Uh, the first point was, um, You know, uh, people have said to me and I see it come up over and over again, is that every time you heal, every time you have a breakthrough, the universe is always there to kind of [00:42:00] test you, not in a negative way, but it's always going to give you like, uh, "have you really made the breakthrough here?"

So when you're talking about your anxiety feeling worse, that totally felt like the universe being like, "all right let's, let's test you." 

Bri: [00:42:12] It's been the year of tests for sure. 

Ronan: [00:42:18] Yeah. Uh, I would love to hear more about that actually. What else has been, what else has felt like a test for you? 

Bri: [00:42:24] No, I mean, I think, you know, the over COVID, I was actually able to access some of my early trauma memories that came back to me randomly.

And I think it's because of all the time spent alone in the house with no distractions and no work. So I was sort of crushed, crushed down and had to learn a lot of lessons around self-compassion and shame and boundaries and the whole nine yards. And it felt like every time I would [00:43:00] learn a huge lesson to have a breakthrough and feel this overwhelming sense of like "I got it" the next day or the next week, it would be like "do you really got it?"

It would throw someone in that I had to like do boundary with and I'd be like, "no," you know, I don't want to actually have to do anything, you know, I just want to stand it. So it was just over and over and over tests to see if I had really learned how to let go of control. If I had really learned how to come back to that place behind my eyes, instead of spinning in my old narratives cycles, you know?

So it's been humbling to say the least. 

Ronan: [00:43:43] Uh, first of all, um, this is the 25th podcast we have  recorded, and I think in every podcast I've asked people, um, or I've said COVID has been described as the great pause. And one of the thing, things Irwin has always talked about [00:44:00] is don't waste this time. This is a wonderful opportunity.

A, cause you have the space and B, because the universe is taking a big spotlight and bringing all of your issues to the surface. Like you can't ask for a more perfect intersection of events to deal with your shit. Um, And of all 25 people, um, that I've spoken to. I asked that question and everybody had a thoughtful answer, but you're the first person who actually really described it as I've had this pause.

I've had this opportunity, the universe brought this stuff to me, it wasn't easy. Probably wouldn't choose to do this again if I had to, but you've, you're the first person out of everyone I've spoken to that's really taking this great pause and really leaned into it as the great pause and all of the really wonderful, and I mean that in the most literal sense, uh, opportunities that come out of it.

So, um, as much as you may have felt crushed down, [00:45:00] um, from the experience, which I'm sure it was at times, very crushing, please accept my acknowledgement that I think that's amazing. Uh, and, um, I'm so glad that, that you shared it with me. 

Bri: [00:45:12] I'm feeling like all of us are sort of entering this phase where we're rising from the ashes of everything and it feels really good, you know, it feels, it feels good now to have that experience of being crashed all the way to the bottom

and when you think it's the bottom, you have four more levels to go, and then, you know, there's so much more brightness and lightness that comes right along with it. So it's really just sort of gives me excitement to go further into anything else that comes my way. 

Ronan: [00:45:48] And if there's one piece of advice I can offer just from my personal experience, is that it's going to feel like you're dealing with the same issues over and over and [00:46:00] over and over and over and over and over again.

And you are, um, on some levels, but as Erwin has described it, to me, it's like, the words are the same, how we think about it- like the structure is the same, but the nuance is different. The energy is different. It's not as harsh anymore. It's a little bit softer. It's a little bit more elegant. There's more insight that comes from it.

So anytime you feel like, "oh fuck haven't I worked through this issue before?" Just my advice: have a little compassion for yourself because, yes you have, and yes, you will is probably be the answer that's going to come out of it.

Bri: [00:46:35] And I would say, over the time, especially in the ketamine. And over the past year, like the biggest lesson has been providing safety and compassion for younger parts of myself

and I had extremely cool visuals during the ketamine that, or after the ketamine where I could communicate with younger parts of myself with much more [00:47:00] ease and really hold, hold all of these different ages that were terrified and sort of befriend them and, you know, and that doesn't mean they were all great.

You know, there were certain ages that were pissed off screaming and kicking, like hating talking to me that I sort of developed this learning of how to, how to befriend them, and how to make them feel safe and comfortable. And it was, it was the most incredible process that ketamine, sorry, that's that ketamine, you know, sort of made even more, more powerful. 

Ronan: [00:47:38] Had you done inner child work before because that's awesome and amazing, and like I've tried 17 different modalities and all that kind of stuff and a lot of it touches on inner child work in different ways and in different languages. Um, but it was only recently, uh, again, through conversations

with a friend of mine who really pressed me to do some of the inner [00:48:00] child work, and he told me about his practice, which involved, uh, having a picture of himself would have the kid. And so this is a picture of me as probably about four or five years old, um, and like spending time and giving that child, uh, for me, what he needed at that time that he didn't get.

Um, and it was a very powerful exercise. And to hear you have that through your ketamine experience, if you had an otherwise been, um, participating in such a modality, I think is amazing. Um, but is that the kind of work you had done before? Did this just come out during your ketamine? 

Bri: [00:48:40] I had been exploring it before, you know, internal family systems, just the concept of that

and the somatic work that I do is very focused on making those younger ages feel safe, but there was still a part that was very locked away that I could visually see. Like it was [00:49:00] like, no, you're not allowed to go to this section. Like at all, like you can't even like glance in the direction. And I remember after the one of my ketamines maybe it was the third, I could look over there and she would give me like rules about like what I could do in that space

and I had to listen to her and I had to make her feel safe. And by the end, this desolate desert dark spot had turned into like a lush garden that with tree houses where we would play and lay in the grass and look at the clouds,and hold hands, like, it is incredible like the visuals that you can do if you kind of just continue to go back to this place and meet these younger parts.

So I did have some understanding, but I think that there was a block that wasn't really allowing me to get to some of the most afraid parts of myself. 

Ronan: [00:49:50] Right. And the ketamine kind of helped that?

Bri: [00:49:53] Yeah, I think it just created like more ease in my body and allowed me to, to go there. 

[00:50:00] Ronan: [00:50:00] So cool. Going forward a year, how do you think, uh, Bri one year from now is going to be different because of the experience you had?

I mean, specifically with our Field Trip ketamine sessions, but more so over just what you've experienced over the last year. How do you think you're going to be different to me a year from now? Where, where does your journey take you from here? 

Bri: [00:50:28] Hopefully just more myself and more confident in listening to that sole voice instead of that ego voice.

And it's very easy to get wrapped up in the ego voice, but you can hear the difference. Cause it's very fast. It's very afraid. It's very illogical. It doesn't make much sense. And the other voice is completely, you know, there for you at the same place, you [00:51:00] just have to look to the right, you know, a little bit more and hear that voice.

So I hope that I can just stay more in tune with that voice, even if it's just befriending my ego more. And yeah, just, just more ease and more of myself. I do think that your brain, you know, your neural pathways change with this kind of work when you continue to come back to this place and integrate this, this work.

So I do think that your brain really does change when you're healing. Like I've seen, I've seen a total change in myself over the past few years and not always, of course I still have triggers and things that are still the same, but I have a better reaction period around any of it. So hopefully that continues.

Ronan: [00:51:46] Yeah, absolutely. I love, uh, the articulation of trying to distinguish between your ego and, your ego voice and your intuition voice, because I think it's so easy for people to be like, oh yeah, that conceptually, I kind of get [00:52:00] that. But when you give concrete ways to assess, is that my ego talking or is that my intuition talking and actually the pace of how they speak to you.

Bri: [00:52:09] Yeah

Ronan: [00:52:09] How frenetic it is. You know, if you'd be like, is that a voice that's frenetic or is that one that's like calm and grounded in love or, or whatever you want to call it. It's actually a really useful, I think, exercise for myself personally, but I think for others listening as well to think about it, that way being like "what's talking right now" and having concrete ways to make that assessment.

That's very cool. Um, on Instagram you posted what I thought was a very powerful mini movie called Finding Shelter. Um, and you asked them very thoughtful and important questions, but before I get into some of that, what took you to shelter island? And what was the experience like? Can you tell us more about that?

Bri: [00:52:50] Yeah, we, um, in COVID we were just thinking about, okay, how can we lean even [00:53:00] further into just sort of sheltering in, you know, in a, in a, in a fun way that feels safe. So we thought about doing a house swap and it just sort of, I was looking around, we actually didn't think about doing house swap. We thought about getting like a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and just like hunkering down there for awhile.

And then, you know, it just logistically just felt like excessive or indulgence. So we just kind of let it go, and a few days later I got a message from someone that was like, would you ever know someone that would want to do a house swap with us in this house? And it was like, just had the, had the clawfoot tub,

and it had just this comfort element that we were like, the snow, and so we just decided to, to house swap with these, um, this couple, and we drove across the country and stayed there for two months and they stayed here for two months, and during that period, like I said, my [00:54:00] memory, my trauma memories had been coming back to me.

I was having a lot of panic attacks, I was  not doing okay, and that place really helped me in this place that was like breaking me open, but also nurturing me. Um, I wasn't working like at all, which was horrible. It felt, it felt like it was horrible because it was really scary. And I had nothing to focus on, but my own spinning thoughts,

and so I just decided I was going to go complete- I didn't know I was making that movie. I was just filming the little things that made me feel good, that made me feel in the present moment that made me feel like slightly okay. And when I got back to LA, I felt really good. Like just a revival of energy.

And I just thought, you know, I should put all of those little clips that I had taken for myself together [00:55:00] and just sort of. Make it like a visual diary of, sorry, if I touch my microphone.  A visual diary of everything that I was going through during that time, and, you know, just sort of like poured out of me

and of course I like halfway through, it was like, "this is so lame. Why am I doing this?" And I had been doing the Artist's Way. I don't know if you know that book, but I'd been doing the Artist's Way, which is really about exploring your inner child and exploring creativity. And it was, it was totally breaking me open in a creative way.

So I was very grateful for that, but yeah, it, it sort of came out of, uh, reading that book, which I highly recommend.

Ronan: [00:55:38] The Artist's Way. Okay. I'm gonna write that down. I haven't heard of that. Um, and it was on a, what's it a place called shelters, Shelter Island, or is that a name you gave to where you were cause like that, that is so elegant.

I know the universe is funny like that. Um, it was actually called Shelter Island, yes. It's like near, near the Hamptons. Like,  [00:56:00] outside of New York city. 

Ronan: [00:56:03] Super cool. In that you asked some questions that, uh, you probably asked rhetorically, but I'm not going to let you get away with that. So I'm going to ask those questions to you.

Um, non rhetorically. So the first one was can creativity soothe hurt? What do you think?

Bri: [00:56:22] I, 1000% think it's a channel that you can tune into that completely soothes your hurt because the flow state is the best state, and when you can get in that zone or you're like, time is slowed down and you're, for me, it's like taking pictures or videos or thinking of ideas or concepts like, the hurt is just secondary 

so I definitely think creativity is a huge therapist. 

Ronan: [00:56:51] I totally agree. Um, with Field Trip, I mean, I'm less, I put less value on psychedelic drugs and more about the [00:57:00] psychedelic experience and specifically the wonder that comes out of that.

Bri: [00:57:03] Yes!

Ronan: [00:57:03] When you're in that zone of wonder or creativity, which are different, but they got the same resonance.

Bri: [00:57:09] Oh, yeah.

If, I mean, it's like all of that noise, all of that anxiety, all of that depression, all of that stress, it like, it just, there's no space for it. It's like beauty, you know, same thing. It's just, there's no space. And so if you can tap into that a lot more, you can exclude it. I don't know if it necessarily leads to healing, but it certainly creates a lot of space.

Maybe it does the healing. I don't know, actually.

Bri: [00:57:29] I think it does because I really believe color or sound. And you know, if you're a musician that the sound can, can heal you, the colors. I started watercolor painting and I felt like just the mindfulness and the color was healing me in a really big way.

So I definitely think there's a million ways to explore creativity and healing. 

That's awesome. Uh, second question. Um, have you learned to value yourself not through productivity and I know, [00:58:00] and modern society it's, it's not specific to men and women, but men often get associated as being performance objects, which is like mad men always are not, not all men,

so please accept my generalizations with a grain of salt, but we often get valued by getting stuff done. So I've noticed that like, in some of the conversations and arguments I've had with my wife and in past relationships, it's like, I'm always like, okay, just solve the problem, move on. And sometimes, you know, Stephanie just wants to be heard and it's just a different viewpoint.

And conversely women have for forever long been viewed as sex objects, right? They get value through being mothers through sex, that kind of lens and often associated with that. That's why when you go on social media, it's always like weird, um, when a woman posts a picture and the responses are, oh, you're so beautiful,

right? Which is true. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're not going to get that from a guy. So it just kind of gives that lens. But in your [00:59:00] case, how have you learned to value yourself? Not through productivity? Cause it sounds like that was one of the things you were struggling with.

Bri: [00:59:08] I would say it's definitely still an unwinding of the hustle culture and capitalism that seeps in and every turn, but I definitely feel worth so much more separated from, from work or how productive I am in the day.

I think. You know, maybe it was Alan Watts that said, like not to measure the day through productivity, but through the amount of presence and how present was I today? How was, how much in my mind was I, how distracted was I? How much was I running away with TV or alcohol or something? You know, how connected was I to myself?

So I definitely have a better idea around all of these things, but I think it's going to take more and more practice to, [01:00:00] to, to really sit in it. 

Ronan: [01:00:02] Yeah. That's for sure. Have you slowed down?

Yes. Yes. I, I even noticed in the morning, you know, when COVID was first starting that I would wake up feeling like, "oh, I forgot something,

what, what am I, what am I late for? What do I have to do?" I would have this rushed anxiety feeling from the second I woke up and now there's so much more ease because of this continued lesson that I'll just say, you know, there's, there's enough time for everything. There's no rush, you know, like just having to really tell myself over and over that there is no rush that everything is working out and perfect timing and nothing that's meant for you is gonna pass you by like, you're good.

You know? So again, just have to keep compacting that lesson. 

Ronan: [01:00:55] That's awesome. I know that when I've come back from vacation, [01:01:00] specifically, I remember I spent about three weeks in Africa and climbed Kilimanjaro. And when I got back and I was like, I'm living in a slow life, like walk slowly through the streets, I'm going to slow down,

and literally within like six hours of being back, I was back to my old, old ways. It's it's really, uh, it's really challenging, but it is something that, uh, I think is a worthwhile pursuit. 

Bri: [01:01:23] I wouldn't say that the biggest, uh, thing in the way is the phone. The phone takes you to a completely different energy. You can tell your body when you stop looking at your phone, your body completely settles.

So I would say the phone keeps you fast and I'm still learning how to break away from that considering it's part of my job. But yeah, I think everyone should really take a, take a deep look on how they feel in their body when they're looking at that thing. Uh, I think that's, uh, so important and I one-hundred percent agree.

I think like most people, I have a love-hate relationship with [01:02:00] my phone. I'm probably much more articulated about my hate aspect with my phone. Um, and I struggled to find the right balance. I've I've longed dreamed a buddy of mine gave up a smartphone and went back to a flip phone and I was like, oh, that sounds so magical.

Bri: [01:02:17] I wanted to do that, but I was like "how are you going to Uber and how are you going to Venmo..." 

Ronan: [01:02:24] Yeah, exactly. And then you got like, yeah, pulled back in and then, you know, I have, I have, I've worked with iPhones as well as Androids and on, on the one plus phones, on the Android, they have a Zen mode where they lock you out. Like there's no getting back in. You can answer phone calls and your pictures and you can't get back in, 

and so I'm always inclined to do that, but then it runs up against both my anxiety as well as, you know, the day-to-day commercial need. And am I comfortable actually letting go of that control? And clearly the answer to date has been no, but I do aspire one day to be able to do that. [01:03:00] Um, uh, couple more questions and then I'll let you get back to your newly found slow life.

Uh, why is Fantastic Fungi, the most important movie you've ever seen? 

Bri: [01:03:16] I feel like besides the fact that that movie is just so beautiful and dreamy and shot so well, the information in that movie is, like wakes up yourselves. I really believe because it's these big concepts that are actually really simple about just how connected we are to nature, and it can teach you about life and death and the cycles of life, and so much about the healing powers of nature and what it can do to your body.

Um, I feel like if, if kids were taught that connection of, you know, the [01:04:00] mindfulness and the healing powers of nature, it would be truly change- it would change the world, I think. So I'm with Paul Stamets on that one that this is, this is, these are really, really important things to spread the word about.

Ronan: [01:04:15] Have you ever read read The Immortality Key? 

Bri: [01:04:18] I haven't.

Ronan: [01:04:19] Okay. It's, uh, I, it, it's kind of got like an Indiana Jones-esque quality to it. It was written by a former lawyer like myself. Um, anyway, it looked into the origins of the use of psychedelics and how, how far back it goes in our society and all that kind of stuff. Not, not germane to what you just said, but something about it, which, um, you know, just recalled something to me was that, um, in The Immortality Key, in ancient Greece, they would give the people who went to Eleusis, this drink and take them through the experience.

And after you went through this experience, it was genuinely believed you'd no longer fear death. And as you're [01:05:00] talking about the life and death connection with fungi and you know, all that kind of process, just took me back to that about how different would our lives be if we didn't fear death. You know, if death wasn't an end that we actually believe to our core that, you know, leaving this mortal shell is only the end of one journey and the start of a next, god it would take a lot of anxiety out of life, wouldn't it?

Bri: [01:05:28] Absolutely, it teaches us about, about death. Um, I actually just had one of my closest friends pass away the, in this past week and- 

Ronan: [01:05:39] I'm sorry.

Bri: [01:05:40] And it, as gut-wrenching as it is, I swear that the psychedelic experience had showed me like, wow, she's going somewhere pretty. And she's going somewhere so magical and she's going, so I'm jealous of where she's going.

Like, I, I really feel like he can give you that feeling [01:06:00] of, of understanding on a bigger level. So I'm, I'm really grateful to have had that experience while this is all going on. 

Ronan: [01:06:08] Uh, I can't possibly ask a meaningful question after that. Uh, I'm just going to stop because that was beautiful. And, you know, it's so powerful because A, the default of so many people is to say, oh, she's, you know, he, or she has gone to a better place,

um, which, A, a lot of people don't want to hear it because actually it's just as lip service, but the way you said it with such genuine emotion and passion, it's like, yeah, I couldn't help but believe it's true. Like if obviously you were close to her, but her parents or whomever, right. It's like, yeah. You know, when I hear it from you in that way, it's like, yeah, I believe that that actually-.

Bri: [01:06:43] Yeah, and this wasn't something that I needed to even share with her, you know, before she passed away, it was just a genuine ease feeling within myself as someone who cares about her so much that I felt like just more ease with where she was going. [01:07:00] And like I had, like, I had seen a glimpse of it during the psychedelic experience.

Ronan: [01:07:05] Wonderful. Well Bri, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your experience, being really open. I think it's really powerful. I've enjoyed the conversation, but more importantly, I think it's really important for people to hear this and see people like you, um, you know, share their experiences because I think it inspires and empowers other people to wade into their own journeys, wherever that may be, whether that's going for ketamine sessions, whether it's just starting a meditation practice or, or, or dealing with the death of someone who was close to them.

I think it's been very powerful. And so I thank you so much for being a part of this. 

Bri: [01:07:45] Yeah. That was a really fun, easy conversation. So I'm happy you had me.

Ronan: [01:07:51] Good. And I gave you all my hard questions, so I feel pretty good about that. 

Bri: [01:07:56] Yeah. 

Ronan: [01:07:57] In reflecting on my conversation with Bri, [01:08:00] I couldn't help but turn back to this conversation that took place in a book between a princess and an outlaw. Said the outlaw, "well, princess, you may get off on being a beautiful stereotype regardless of the social consequences, but my conscience won't allow, it." Said the princess, "I may be a princess, but I goddamn refuse to be dragon bait.

I'm as capable of rescuing and you as you are of rescuing me." Said the outlaw, "I'm an outlaw, not a hero. I never intended to rescue you. We're our own dragons, as well as our own heroes and we have to rescue ourselves from ourselves." There are few people who exemplify this principle that we have to rescue ourselves from ourselves more than Bri. In so many respects,

Bri's decision to essentially say," fuck this. It's not working for me," is one of the bravest things I've heard on this podcast. So if there's anything to take away from this podcast, it's this. Real courage is risking something that might force you to [01:09:00] rethink your thoughts and suffer change, and stretch consciousness.

And if you don't know what that means, look at the path Bri has taken. And secondly, remember all things are possible. If we just have the wisdom to shrink our egos and stop taking ourselves so damn seriously. Bri is a shining example of that. Thank you for listening to Field Tripping, a podcast that's dedicated to exploring psychedelic experiences and their ability to affect our lives.

I'm your host Ronan Levy. Until next time, stay curious, breathe properly, and remember, every day is a field trip if you let it be one. Field Tripping is created by Ronan levy. Our producers are Conrad Page and John Cvack and associate producer is Sharon Bella. Special thanks to Kast Media, and of course many thanks to Bri Emery for joining me today.

To learn more about Bri, check out her Instagram @designlovefest. Finally, please rate, review [01:10:00] and subscribe to our podcast and sign up for our newsletter at fieldtripping.fm or wherever you get your podcasts or leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com/fieldtripping. Or send us an email to fieldtripping@kastmedia.com.   .

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